Gun design chatlog

 January 21, 2016 

topher:

People who don't suck at making gun sounds: did you just have to do a metric ton of them before you got a feel for how you need to construct and mix layers?

seanlavalle:

Those guns I made were my 4th iteration I think

I followed the standard advice on what individual layers to put together

But I really had to listen at some good examples to get a feel for what each layer sounds like, and how it adds to the whole

rene_coronado:

what problems are you having?

topher:

@rene_coronado the end results tend to just sound really muddy. There's no definition to the sound, no character

rene_coronado:

two approaches: 1) intellectualize: break down exactly what you think is lacking and define how you'd improve it

2) freestyle - throw lots of shit at the wall and see what sticks

are many of your layers occupying the same freq space?

seanlavalle:

^^^ that's how I tend to think of each layer

topher:

It really doesn't seem like it, I've tried all kinds of eq options to get them to play well together

rene_coronado:

describe your layers

topher:

A transient "snap", a lower freq thump, a midrange body (which is the one I have the toughest time finding a way to fit) and a mechanical layer

seanlavalle:

Body was definitely the hardest for me

And I'm still unhappy with a few of them

topher:

Yeah either it feels anemic or ends up muddying a big freq range

rene_coronado:

try crushing the snap and hipassing it. bandpass the thump - nothing below 40 nothing above 120.

topher:

Hmm I'll do that, maybe I'm being too precious with eq

rene_coronado:

try distortion on the body track

turn your speakers up at first to find the balance

then limit down to place after the fact

topher:

Okay, that gives me a little more clarity

I definitely feel like it's a mixing issue. I have pretty decent source options

rene_coronado:

its likely your mechanical sounds and your blasty sounds are competing.

seanlavalle:

@rene_coronado: You mean literally limit?

rene_coronado

depending on usage

fully transient weapon fire is fun, but hard to rate in a  mix at low levels.

but IMO you shouldnt do dynamics until after your balances are set.(edited)

with the exception of crushed tracks and distortion

@topher is your final output stereo or mono?

seanlavalle:

So you try to composite your sound, then EQ for clarity on the layers after?

topher:

Mono. And at least for this situation I have to bake in environmental verb

rene_coronado:

eq and balances go hand in hand and should be done simultaneously. dynamics comes after that

topher:

That's definitely not how I've been approaching it, but at this point I think trying something very different would be sanity-restoring

Thankfully all of this is for a game jam so if I don't get it totally sorted it isn't the end of the world.

rene_coronado:

the reason eq and balances between layers interact is because eq effectively applies gain to a part of the frequency spectrum

so if you gain part of your sound up or down it changes the relationship to other sounds

therefore its common to eq, rebalance, repeat until everything fits

You may want to try this:

bandpass your thump and put that as loud as you need it to be. then start pulling up your other elements around the thump layer

mixing requires a compass or else you can lose your bearings. Its important to identify the element that will end up being the "lead"

having a lead element is like having a set of ethical values almost. Its like "this will not be compromised, and everything else serves this"

thats why i like using faders. :simple_smile:

joel_walsh:

this is great advice @rene_coronado thanks for taking some time out to share

lucafusi:

Yeah @rene_coronado, thanks as always.. You're full of awesome micro-dives like this. Frantically copying and pasting now for when I ever move back into real sounds n' guns.

@rene_coronado: You use a multiband comp to tighten up your guns at all on the composite mix bus? I don't use them much anymore, but that seems like a scenario where they would shine

rene_coronado:

i haven't built a proper gun from scratch in a little while. If i were to do one now I very likely would go with a multi band limiter, in addition to an LFE extender (depending on specifics of course)

lucafusi:

You mean a subharmonic synth like LoAir?

Re: extender

rene_coronado:

@lucafusi: yep

jamesdean:

On the subject of guns - If you had a looped Multisound event for an automatic gun and you want to play a release tail when the trigger is released could you use a parameter to play that within the same Event or call a new Event?

kh:

@jamesdean: FMOD? seems like both could technically work..couldn't you just have a multisound with a sustain point that then scrubs off into a tail when keyed off?

jaymfernandes:

@jamesdean: you can use a param to jump to a marker or transition to play the tail in the same event

playing another event might have some timing issues but could also be done

kh:

@jamesdean: in fact FMOD's studio sample project has a looping gun sample, so you can look to that for guidance too